[Copperhead]

I keep hearing about the crotch warmer of a radiator. Here in Louisiana that's exactly what I have experienced. It's all good until the fan kicks in and then poof (chestnuts roasting on an open fire, and it ain't X-mas). Thinking about a rubber/neoprene add on in the behind dash area/steering column and upper rear (front fender) vents. Open the vents in summer and close them in winter with the neoprene removed. All the warmth when you can get it when you can, and none when you don't want it. Oh great...another design project. Or back bones and a radiator relocate project...jeez, this is starting to look like a dual design project. Anybody working on back bones?

 

[Hayseed]

Copperhead, I have been having the same problem. I took my first ride today in 88 degree heat after insulating the front of the Ace with this.

View attachment 1196

I put some in the radiator compartment with the foil side facing the radiator. I covered the driver's side of the firewall with the foil side facing the driver because the other side has the adhesive. I rode for 45 minutes and the fan was on. The driver's compartment was much cooler. I still have some experimenting to do with the drivers compartment. I want the foil side facing forward to reflect the radiator heat. I may double insulate it to see if that is more effective. I cannot cover the entire driver side of the firewall because of the accelerator pedal.

I am also planning to insulate the rear. The plastic around the muffler gets very hot. I have exhaust wrap that I will apply to see if I can cool that down. I'll post pics when I finish.

 

[Scoundrel]

Hayseed, when you are done testing, I would be interested in seeing those results, and specific part numbers for the products you use (self-adhesive foil covered foam, and exhaust wrap).

 

[Hayseed]

I should be done with my experimenting in a few days. Four of us plan to spend the day riding at Barnwell Mountain in Gilmer, TX on June 13th. It should be nice an warm. The top speed allowed on their trails is 15 mph so I don't know how much heat we will generate. However, we will ride my trails on the 12th and 14th. I have no speed limits but there are few straight aways and my top speed had been something just over 40. There will be two uninsulated Aces to compare the cab heat and rear heat around the muffler and exhaust. I am going to try and find a sensitive electronic thermometer so that we can take some reading inside the cab, on the firewall and around the plastic panels in the rear. I like exact measurement rather than subjective opinions. I hope I can pull it off. I will let the forum know of my success. If it works, I will post products and pics of my install. If it doesn't work, I will share that also.

The engine cover behind the seat has some of the reflective foil facing the engine. I have never really noticed a lot of heat coming through that panel and warming the seat. As an experiment today, I rode without that engine cover. After about five minutes, the seat was cooking my rear end. In my opinion, the reflective foil is effective. The foam on the insulation that I am using is sound deadening. I hope to also reduce the engine noise with the insulation.

 

[Scoundrel]

I'm keen on sound deadening too, though the ACE is quieter than my RZR inside the cab.
Harbor Freight sells a cheap infrared no-touch thermometer.
I also picked up a cheap Decibel meter too, but I don't think that came from HF.

 

[Copperhead]

Scoundrel You may need to start a new thread about the heat shield from the radiator stuff. Mostly for us southern burn'em up summer folks and those sand dune/desert types. Check out "Thermotec", used this stuff in my California Hotrod days, a lot of bang for the buck. Not so worried about the sound deadening thing, it's mechanical and I just love the symphony of gears and such, not to mention picking up on those sounds we do not want to hear, i.e. grinding, binding and bearing noises. Just trying not to hijack a thread.

 

[Scoundrel]

Scoundrel You may need to start a new thread about the heat shield from the radiator stuff. Just trying not to hijack a thread.

That's not a bad idea. A little topic drift is normal, but this seems to be a topic worthy of its own thread.

 

[cumminsdieselgt]

I know it is more expensive than some materials, but has anyone ever used Dynamat?

 

[Hayseed]

I got my decibel meter and infrared thermometer in today and played with them a few minutes just to familiarize myself with the meters. The thermometer is accurate to within 2% of actual temperature and the decibel meter is accurate to within 1.5 decibels of actual. I got the following readings with the decibel meter with the Ace stationary. I was holding the meter above my right shoulder.

Idle - 1250 RPM 70
2000 RPM 71
3000 RPM 75
4000 RPM 79
5000 RPM 83
8000 RPM 95

Riding at 40 mph on a gravel road I hit 98 decibels.

I played with the thermometer a bit and the insulation that I have with the foil side toward the driver in the cab lowered the temperature 10 degrees from the firewall temperature. After just 10 minutes of riding, the plastic above the muffler was 145 degrees.

I will look at the insulation that you more experienced people have suggested. I just found some on Amazon and ordered it.

 

[fred]

The cab area gets warm with my full front and rear wind shields, even up here in western NY but I am looking forward to the extra warmth come October and later.
I've already been thinking of how to enclose the cab.

 

[Hayseed]

The products that I am testing are the DEI 050510 Under Hood Thermal Acoustic Lining and the DEI 010330 Motorcycle Exhaust Pipe Wrap Kit. I have spent $133 for the two products.

 

[Hayseed]

I did enough experimenting today that I thought it was worth posting some intermediate results. Unfortunately, I put a little bit of insulation behind the upper radiator in the radiator compartment last week before I did any measurements. That may have affected my measurements a bit, but I don't think very much. I measured the cab heat on the lower part of the firewall so the bit of insulation that I had under the hood should have little effect. I will repeat the measurements next week on a couple of unmodified Aces.

I rode three 30 minute segments and let the Ace cool off between each segment. I rode without windshields or cab door netting to minimize any heat buildup. I wanted to measure the firewall heat from the radiator. It was a cloudy day with an ambient temperature of 84 degrees

First I rode without any cab insulation on the firewall. At the end of the ride, the firewall temperature was 133 degrees. Ride a long time with your feet on a 133 degree surface and you will definitely feel the heat.

Next, I rode a 30 minute session with the cab insulation and the reflective foil surface pointing towards the driver away from the firewall. The surface of the insulation was 103 degrees. I pulled the insulation and the firewall was again 133 degrees. The insulation that I am using lowered the firewall temperature by 30 degrees.

Next, I rode a 30 minute session with the cab insulation and the reflective foil surface pointing away from the driver toward the firewall. The results were the same. The insulation was at 103 degrees and the firewall was at 133. The insulation again lowered the temperature by 30 degrees.

I also measured the temperature of the muffler after each ride. It was consistently between 200 and 203. The vented plastic immediately behind the muffler is cooking. The plastic above the muffler was 130 degrees. I have previously measure the plastic above the muffler at 145 on a hotter, sunny day.

I have spent $200 on meters and insulation. If anyone has any other form of insulation and an infrared thermometer, please run some tests and see how effective the insulation is. I just don't want to spend any more than this on the experiment.

I will run some more tests with two layers of insulation on the firewall. I hope to begin stripping off the rear plastic panels and put on the exhaust wrap and insulation around the engine later today. I will post the results after my trip to Barnwell Mountain ATV park next weekend.

 

[Scoundrel]

This is awesome, and I appreciate you putting this much money and effort into it.
One detail I was unable to determine reading through it is exactly where you put the insulation - in the cab, or on the radiator side of the firewall?
A few pictures would round this off nicely, and be much appreciated!

 

[Hayseed]

Scoundrel, I have put insulation on both sides of the firewall. I put some on the radiator side but because of cross members and brakes, etc. I could only put it behind the top half of the radiator. I also put it in the cab. I was able to cover most of the firewall except for under the accelerator. I will post photos and a more structured write up in a week or so when I am finished.

I did do some more testing today. With a double layer of the insulation, the firewall was at ambient temperature. I am excited about that. I also measured the temperature behind the seat and I was shocked. The right side plastic in front of the exhaust was 202 degrees. It was 175 over most of the plastic behind the seat. In the middle of the engine cover panel behind the seat Polaris has put some reflective material and it was only 150 there. No wonder my rear end cooked when I rode without the engine cover panel.

Because of my measurements, I have ordered some better exhaust wrap that is made from lava rocks. It is DEI titanium wrap and withstands direct heat up to 1800 degrees. I also ordered some DEI Cool Tape that can withstand up to 400 degrees direct heat and 2000 degrees radiant to seal places where the 1" thick insulation will not fit and to seal over the seams between the patches of insulation.

If I knew what I was doing, this would have been a lot quicker and less expensive. Maybe the next person will benefit from my fumbling and even improve on it. I believe that I can get the cab temperature down to ambient temperature.

 

[Scoundrel]

In the middle of the engine cover panel behind the seat Polaris has put some reflective material and it was only 150 there. No wonder my rear end cooked when I rode without the engine cover panel.
If I knew what I was doing, this would have been a lot quicker and less expensive.
Maybe the next person will benefit from my fumbling and even improve on it.

Hah! With the exhaust header right there, I'd say so!
Unfortunately, wen we do custom stuff without the benefit of a howto guide, that's what happens. That's why I'm waiting on your results.
I am sure that someone will benefit. Starting with me, probably.

 

[cumminsdieselgt]

What a great job of testing and documenting results! Sometimes with the best science, this work differently to disprove a hypothesis. The reflective barrier insulation on the firewall on both sides was a great idea! I will have to try some Dynamat after I work on the accelerator spring. Been out of town on work, will try to catch up around the house this weekend, then change out a spring...

 

[Hayseed]

I got the Ace partially insulated today. I am waiting on delivery on Monday of some DEI Titanium Exhaust Wrap and DEI Cool Tape to finish the job.

View attachment 1213

This is my Ace stripped for me to insulate the rear of the Ace. I have finished with the insulation of the front portion of the Ace.

View attachment 1214

To insulate the cab side of the firewall I made some cardboard templates of sections of the firewall.

View attachment 1215

Then I cut pieces of the DEI sound deadening insulation using the templates.

View attachment 1217

This is a view of the firewall from the cab. I have installed two layers of insulation. My testing showed that two layers of this insulation will reduce the firewall temperature to ambient temperature. I cut small sections of the insulation to fill in all the gaps that I could. I am planning to apply the cool tape to the area under the accelerator pedal.

View attachment 1216

This is a view through the inspection plate in the bottom of the front storage container. I have surrounded the brake fluid reservoir with the insulation with the foil side facing the radiator. I did not remove the sticky backing from the insulation. I just jammed it around the reservoir and I have ridden about an hour and a half with it in place. I plan to secure it with some gorilla tape.

View attachment 1218

Here is a section of the insulation behind the coolant filler adjacent to the firewall. I secured this piece to the firewall with the adhesive backing.

View attachment 1219

This shows the inspection plate behind the seat covered with insulation. I plan to seal the edges with the DEI Cool Tape when it arrives on Monday.

More to come next week when more product arrives.

 

[fred]

Nice job Hayseed!
I'm sure it's hot out where you are but this thread has me thinking how to direct engine heat IN TO the cab come October and later!
Sure would be nice to have a heated ATV in winter.

 

[shortbed]

Hi fred, there is an outfit that makes a cabin heater for the RZR I am sure they will come up with one for the ACE. They use the coolant liquid in the heater. cheers

 

[shortbed]

Hi Hayseed, really enjoying your articles on the heat problem in the ACE. Just put full doors on my ACE & having a heat problem, will be following your articles. Thank you for sharing & your great pics! cheers